Global Day of Jewish Learning

Rabbi Steinsaltz sums it up beautfilly and to the point.  Instead of Judaism focusing on what is outside the box, it is time to focus on what is inside the box. Better, yet what is inside the “scroll”.  A Freilichin Hanikka!

I appreciate Rabbi Steinsaltz’s message on this topic.  For me the most basic solution is to re-emphasis the full gamut of the Jewish calendar, in particular Shabbat, so that not so much is riding on turning Chanukah into being a more important festival than it is.

When I lighted the Hanukkah candles yesterday in front of my large open front window, making sure it was visible from the outside in a neighborhood full of cheap plastic X-mas lights, I looked at the Hanukkiah next to those X-mas lights and had a deep sense of pride in the difference between Hannukkah and X-mas.  I suggest Jewish parents do the same comparison excercise with their children.

There is no connection between the two holiday,. I think I biggest dilemma is falling into the trap that connects the two. My holiday isn’t better than yours. When we engage in conversation that makes one of us right at the others expense I think it’s a mistake.

Christmas and Hanukkah are one of those times when we have opportunities to teach her children About peace about choices about the differences in cultures and religions. I hope this year we all take the high road. Inspire our children through the stories and the meaning of Hanukkah. Use that kind of language celebrate that kind of language This is truly tikkun olam.

Perhaps this is how the Chanuka battle continues to play itself out in our times. As we say in “She’asah Nissim;” “In those days, at this time.” 

Rabbi Steinsaltz is spot on.  The story of Hannukah is one of belief in ourselves and our own religion.  It is the story of faith strong enough to fight and kill.  To not bow down, no matter the price.  As Hannah said when she lifted the last of her sons, the infant:  ”Even this one will not bow down to you.”  Read the book of Maccabees I-IV, and the book of Judith.
Is it really so hard to light the Hannukiah, play driedel, eat latkes, sufganyiot, and Buñuelos.  Tell the Hannukah story.  We don’t need to disparage Xmas, nor ignore it altogether, after all I do wish my Christian friends a Merry Christmas.  It’s just not my holiday.  We just need to celebrate Hannukah as Jews and let Christian celebrate Christmas.  

I always feel sad for Christians on Christmas. They have but one holiday a year, and they become CRAZY, especially the kids,to make it the best ever so that it rarely satisfies. Their second holiday, Easter, is based on a horrible event, and the celebration is totally incongruous (chocolate bunnies? Easter egg dyeing? When their god was tortured? Really?) I always stressed to my children that we are so lucky that we have holidays virtually every month, and a holiday in Shabbat for sure, every week. With so many different things we can do on each holiday, and so much fun attached, keeping us celebrating all year round.

Good point by the Rabbi. I have no family or children, so for me the identity issue is moot- the issue is to obey and honor G-D and to not mingle with the idolatry of this world. The I just let the identity issue fall where it may- those who know me know. 
Happy Chanukah and Shabbat Shalom!!

I think a really good cultural exposure for Jewish children is to visit with a traditional Scandinavian group for their winter solstice celebration. Almost everything that makes Christmas what it is comes directly from the Scandinavian winter solstice celebrations: tree with lights and decorations, eggnog, yule log, presents, feasts, long stocking full of candy, big roaring fires. It is all warm and cozy because it was their way of brightening the long, cold dark winters in the far latitudes. Seeing this and realizing that Christmas has nothing to do with the Christian religion and everything to do with another culture’s winter time feel good celebration is eye opening. It takes the mystery out of it and takes the edge off when you wonder if there is something special you are missing. It explains all the traditions in a simple way: cold+dark+snow=counteracting with light+warmth+food. That’s all there is, plus a snazzy color scheme. The Christians adopted all of it and put a thin veneer of their religion over it because the best way to convert people is to let them keep their favorite things, which included the winter solstice celebrations, and get them to blend their holidays. We can learn a lot from Christmas.

Specifically, don’t blend your holidays, that’s how they get ya

I’ve personally never heard of the conjoining of the two holidays as Chrismukah. Nonetheless we should be able to appreciate other religions holidays without feeling they have to be “ours”. We can assert our identity and particularity without diminishing the “other”. We are surrounded by Christmas music and lights in America and telling our kids that they’re not actually pretty and exciting teaches them to distrust their feelings and ultimately parent and teacher judgments. Better to teach and show them the beauty of our mesorah while respecting the traditions of our neighbors.  

When I was teaching in a public elementery school we had a ‘winter’ celebration.  My two class mothers made the party. One was Jewish, the other Christian.  The Christian mom brought in felt stockings for the kids to decorate.  The Jewish mom brought in dreidels with instructions for playing the game.  After their art project, the children played dreidel.  When it was time to leave most of the children slipped their dreidels inside their stockings.  The Jewish mom and I just looked at eachother in horror without saying a word,  That was the last time I ever had the class play dreidel at a holiday party. 

The price we pay for living in galut is very high. it is so incumbent upon parents to teach their children that Chanukah is NOT the Jewish Christmas.  The message of Chanukah clearly states that we are not to assimilate and adopt foreign ways. The first person Judah Maccabee attacked was the Jew who wanted to adopt Hellenism. 

Let us not forget that although Hellenism seemed all encompassing and the newest innovation of the time, it is long gone and we’re still here celebrating our holidays in our quiet way.  So many ‘isms’ have come and gone since the days of Antiochus, but we still have our beautiful little lights to brighten up the dark days of winter. 

I believe there is an educational value to teach the meaning of all holidays, since we live in a pluralistic society.    Our Jewish children should not be deprived of the educational value of studying different religious holidays.    Afterall, comparative religions is still a popular college course.   We should have faith that our values and traditions taught by the parents will keep the children true to their faith while respecting others.

Chrismukah was invented by a T.V. show called the O.C.. The only people that I hear use the word today are jews. Please stop before it starts to catch on. It’s hard not to celebrate the holiday with office christmas parties and school christmas concerts. My sons high school band had a “winter concert” that included silent night and oh holy night. Maybe they called it a “winter concert” because it left the jews feeling cold.   

There is no such thing as a Holiday Tree. I begin with this fact because I am tiredof “POLITICALLY CORRECT” BS. I do not want my children to interlace our heritage with others. We have been a unique people for centuries, & I AM NOT ready to stop now. I am proud to be a Jew, &I I do not want to water down who I am or who my grandchildren will be.

Actually it’s a REALLY bad idea to light a Christmas tree, whether you’re Jewish or not.

Christians did assimilate the way of celebration from the Scandinavians because Christianity is a very social religion according to Christ’s teachings which call us to be one with everyone.  As God shows no partiality towards anyone, so Christ taught and teaches that we should show no partiality either.  According to Christ everyone is God’s beloved Child.  Christians have on many occasions substituted their own desires for God’s desire for us all.  They have used the Old Testament to condone fear, and hate, and rejection of anyone who they decided at a particular moment in history was different.  They have used the New Testament to condemn Jews for Jesus’ death.  But the New Testament is metaphorical.  The death of God on a cross is really about humanity as a whole rejecting its Creator Father, rejecting Him Who is Love.  Thankfully, Christ taught us through His life, death, and resurrection that God does not condemn us for our errors about Him, but waits with arms wide open for our return to the truth about Him which is also the truth about us all.  We are the Children of God truly.  We are the children of Love.  This means we are love.  Christmas is supposed to be a time when we decide and declare that we are the children of Love.  We declare through our deliberate intention to be loving towards all others and to be generous in our gifts to those we love and to those in need which show our gratitude to God.  Regrettably we are not perfect in this.  Fear of “the other” keeps us separate in our own minds.  In truth we are not separate because God did not make us separate but created us together and gave us relationships to make us happy.  The reason we are fearful of one another is because we have forgotten that assimilation is good for us.  It is about sharing our lives and our being.  It is healthy because it takes away the fear that separation causes.   

“For the first time in my life, I replied to an email that was wishing me a Merry Christmas.  I wrote back:   I am Jewish and don’t celebrate Christmas in Decemeber; I do Hanukkah in December!  At the very least, “Happy Holidays” is sensitive and appropriate when you don’t know someone’s beliefs.
Didn’t want to miss an opportunity to raise awareness,
   -my name”

Yes, they did write back and apologized.  How dare people assume everyone celebrates Christmas, that burns me up…

As a gentile who loves the Jewish people and is thankful for the blessings I have received from the Jewish people, I agree wholeheartedly with Rabbi Steinsaltz that Jewish families need to tell and retell the stories of  the Jewish people’s fight to remain free and distinct, and not try to mix in stuff from what is essentially a pagan holiday.  This is important anywhere, but especially so here in America where political correctness drives many to water down the distinctives of their heritages for fear of being accused of being “intolerant”. 

RABBI STEINSALTZ IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. WE SHOUD INSTILL IN OUR CHILDREN AN INTENSE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT JUDAISM IS, ITS BEAUTIY AND WAY OF LIFE THAT SHOULD BE A LIGHT UNTO NATIONS.

THE ONLY SIMILRATITY BETWEEN XMAS AND CHANUKA IS THE TIMING

CHANUKA IS SO BEAUTIFUL ON ITS WON – NO STRESS OF GIFTS – A CELEBRATION OF OVERCOMING ADVERSITY- A SYMBOL TO REDEDICATION TO G-D AND COMMUNITY- EIGHT DAYS NOT ONE – WONDERFUL SMELL OF LATKES ETC

AND CHANUKA IS ONLY ONE CELEBRATION OF YEAR LONG JEWISH CELEBRATIONS STARTING WITH SHABBAT ETC.

CHAG URIM SAMEACH

The remembrance of Chanukah reminds us that G-d has not or will ever forget the Jews as we repent of our sins against G-d for not being obedient to what G-d has asked us to be and do in our lives as a community.

I think that Chanukah was not so much a struggle against a military might to preserve our identity, as it was an internal struggle amongst our own people to reassert  the essence of our own identity.  Most Jews of that time, as today, were only too willing to adopt the mores of the prevailing culture.  Were it not for the miracle of Chanukah, the Jews of that time would have totally assimilated.  That would have marked the end of monotheism in general and of the Jews in particular.  Had the Jews disappeared at that time, there would be no Jews today, and no Christians, and no Moslems.  It would have marked the end of the Abrahamic religions.  So, it is not the Jews who should be celebrating Christmas, but the Christians who should be celebratlng Chanukah.

I am a very committed Jew. In addition, contrary to rabinical dicta, I have read the books-Maccabees 1&2, and of their successor Hashmonai kings who reverted to Hellenic ways. While I eat the latkes, I do not credit the miracle of the oil, but of the victory of the “few against many”,and the cleansing and re-dedification of the Beit HaMikdash. Just as the original dedication by Shlomo HaMelech took place during the 8 days of Sukkot, Hanuka is also 8 days. Hanuka provides inspiration, in our time, for the re-creation of Israel. So, unlike the Rabbis, I consider Hanuka not to be a minor holy day(s).
Conversely, even though my parents were dedicated Jews, and my paternal grandparents were extremely frum, my mother read to me “Twas the Night Before Christmas”, had a small Christmas tree, and, as my greatest thrill as a 3 year old, took me to Macy’s to meet Santa Claus who looked and acted just as I had expected. It was only after leaving Macy’s and seeing all of the other supposed Santa Clauses that I first had my doubts. Later,as I approached my Bar Mitzva and went to shul regularly I heard Rabbi I. Usher Kirshbloom sermons railing against Christmas trees not only as non-Jewish but as anti-Jewish Idols.
I have now been married for 50 years,and never had the thought of having a Christmas tree in my house. Yet when I see a public Christmas tree,, I still think that is beautiful. I enormously resent Bill O’Reilly’s campaign to put “Christ back in Christmas”, but I have no problem with Christians doing so in their homes and their churches,but not in the public sqares and malls which are the objectives of O’Reilly’s campaign. I would like to see decorated trees and Santa Claus, which, to my mind,, have no direct connection to the concept that Jesus is God, and discourage manger scenes and the Magi, which do have connection to that unacceptable concept.

For whatever good reason our sages emphasized the miracle of the oil and margenalized the physical fight of the Jews. Should not the books of Maccabees be made part of the Mitzvah of Chanukah?

It is a disgrace that this issue is even considered and discussed in a religious orthodox setting

The Christmas was just the answer of the sky-sun question. However the Chanukah itself is both timeless answer and the question at the same time. Because the light is the creator of the absence of the dark which means that the absence of  the light is the creator of the dark. Therefore without any limit, the light creates itself and creates its absence which we call as dark. Actually the dark does not exist. Its just the absence of the existance of the light. To be and not to be at the same time! still Chanukah Days forever

Just Say No to Chrismukkah. In fact, let’s have a football game with the Jews vs Christians on Saturday 2:00pm in the park…..see you there!

Seriously though, what interests me personally about Chanukah is the movement of the helper on the menorah as it implies relationship in spiritual metaphor.

As a descendant of an “‘ anusim” I can share what has been my experience during the last 10 years: There are many Christians searching for the Jewish Roots of Christianity. More than we can imagine. And this is quite good because Yeshua borned Jewish and lived like a Jew. If Yeshua were alive today and he has to decide where to worship the Creator which one he choose: the Church or the Synagogue?? Being in front of each building I have no doubt that he would get inside the Synagogue. Even when many of his followers are inside the “Christian Temple” he would be with the people to whom he belongs: Jewish. 
Toda Raba
IGS

I think that may be correct. Jesus was said to have said “find green pasture”. Personally I have’nt found one better than the one he came from. It’s an interesting question.

Jag Urim Sameaj

“The mixing of two religions is bad enough…, but disastrous for children”. I think this is essential and doubtless true in order  to keep the own identity and particularly, based upon psychological and educational reasons and grounds,  for the children during Hanuka.

avi

How would I honour Chanuka..? I would honor Chistmas on Chanuka…..Thus on chistmas i honour Chanuka….Thus these holidays fall together of 12 days and 7 days for man=19 days=spirit birth Thus god owns  the House of Hashem…thus it is Chirst the only son of god who runs the Schools Houses of men made in the image of thy son Christ and father Hashem..We may not even be on Earth, nor in these bodies but receptors that connect us to these mindless earth bodies controlled by those angels who play the game…thus this game is in transition..times will change a messiah will come to corret this world for a new world for the evolution of love,,, for our children to come for another 5775 years-225=5550=0=.5.5555 middle time middle earth is here now….2014 October transfusion of Christ chooses One man to succeed him here on this planet. thos he gave away a secret 2000 years ago.He put in to many men in the world that there is a god..thus seperation came upon opposing beleifs…thus satens ways is all the ways,, on the team of saten it is all so he becomes powerful and man becomes stern buisness hard nosed…school house..evil vs lovers and those in between..how does the road house work…well 6 teams on each side…thus the fans of the road house angels who hang around and encourage tos as to there next move with there avatar, man of earth…thus this is a training ceenter to learn all of gods angels ways as these angels have been animals before angels before humans…its so beatiful and scary..your a bee bee=baby=beesleys babies …thus as Angels you play the game until your life line ends and hopefuly your game piece, that us passes inspection of the mind and then gets a ghostly suit=god off heaven soirt transmission life of angel 4 and man 6

I agree with rav Steinsaltz’view. The stories of Channuhah are distinct by Christmas tree.Channuhah involves the iimportant problem of identity of Jewish people , Identity versus ellenistic assimilation 
anna nassisi

The story of Chrismuka is a very ancient story going back to the dawn of man. It is a story of an errant knight in search of truth and G-d and a story about a priest who is the guardian of wisdom and truth.
 
The holiday starts with Adam the first man who was created on the first day of autumn. When he saw that the days were getting shorter, he thought that the world was returning to darkness because of his sin. However shortly after the winter solstice, he saw the days were getting longer and that this was the nature of the world. That day was Dec. 25 and he made a celebration. Yafet AKA as Jupiter named the holiday Saturnalia after his father, Noah.
 
The wayward searching knight is searching for peace on earth and good will towards man.
 
3623 years later Judah Macabee fought a war over the suppression of declaring the new month, circumcision and Shabbos. Circumcision means that man is imperfect and needs rectification. Rosh Hodesh means that the laws of nature can be bent for the convenience of man. Shabbos means we must take a break from work and recognize the Creator.
 
In the end of days the ideas will merge. The mountain of Ya’akov will be high among the other mountains. The nations will stream to Jerusalem saying show us to way to the G-d of Israel. For out of Zion will come the law and the word of G-d from Jerusalem. Nation shall not lift sword against nation and neither will man learn war any more. And the world will be as filled with knowledge of G-d as the waters fill the sea.

Yoseph, that kind of tickles.

Santa can be seen as christain helper on the move,
One that sets limits, hence the piece of coal.
This does not resemble the helper of the menorah
in any way, that’s my opinion and I’m sticking with it.

“Christmas can have a huge impact on Jews and especially on chidren.  Tje mixing of the two religions is bad enough for adults, but disastrous for chidren.”  Why is this?  The message of the gospel, or good news, is “For G-d so loved the world He sent His only “begotten” son into the world,” so that, “whosoever,” (that’s all of us), believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”  That is a quote from the gospel of John 3rd chap.  Or how about this from the gospel of Luke:  Shepherds living in the fields, keeping watch over their fock by night.  And behold, an angel of the L-rd stood before them, and the glory of the L-rd shone around them, and thy were greatly afraid.  Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people.  For there is born to you this day in the “City of David” a SAVIOR, who is Christ the L-rd….. And suddely tere was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising G-d and saying:  “Glory to G-d in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”  Luke 2:8-14.  This is the true meaning of Christmas:  That G-d gave us the gift of His S-n Jesus, Yeshua, as the ultimate sacrificial atonement for our sins.  More importantly, this is the REAL message of Christmas that G-d wants His people to give to all the world.  That Jesus is the Gift of the G-d of Israel to the Lost and Dying world.  And now there is Peace an Reconciliation between G-d ad man.  I know what Jesus did but what did Santa do for the world?

I love the story of chanukah.  I have recently reread the story from Maccabees of how Judas Maccabee led a rag tag band of Jewish resisters to throw off the cruel tirany of Antiochus Epiphany and far superior forces.  If not for Judas Judiasm, as well as, Christianity might not exist today.  We Christians owe a lot to this historical event.  This was all part of G-d’s plan you see.  Jesus wasn’t born yet and G-d wasn’t about to let his plan be destroyed. Judiasm survived and Christianity came into the world on Christmas day!  I love Torah.  I love the Nevi.  I love the Menorah!  Why?  Because each of them points to Jesus, my savior, my beloved rabbi, my Melek, who is the Light of the world.

This is the best satire I’ve read in a really long time.

Chanukkah and Christmas do not always fall at the same time.  That’s the only peace of nonsense in your post I was able to comprehend enough to respond to.

“More importantly, this is the REAL message of Christmas that G-d wants His people to give to all the world. That Jesus is the Gift of the G-d of Israel to the Lost and Dying world.”
Yes, this would be what a certain type of Christian believes.  As opposed to JEWS, for whom Jesus was an apostate of no theological significance.  This is exactly R’ Steinsaltz’ point.

Mr Levy, do you believe in G-d?

Mr Levy, do you believe in miracles?  Do you believe the goy needed a savior?  I am a Christian, sir.  I am not quite sure I am worthy of the title.  My mother read to us out of the old testament, the Tanach, if you will.  She did not tell me about Jesus.  When I was eight years old a friend told me G-d has a son and his son’s name is Jesus.  I asked him, “how could G-d have a son?  I don’t believe you.  He said ask your mother.  So when we got home I asked my mother if it was true.  She never said a word, just shook her head in the affirmative.  After that my friend invited me to his house, along with other children, and we learned the true story of Jesus.  My first prayer was this:  “G-d, I am sorry that your son Jesus had to die on the cross for me.”  I became a Christian at that time.  I am a very imperfect Christian, but that is ok.  That is why J-sus, G-d’s son had to die for me.  I am an imperfect messenger for the King but nevertheless I am a messenger for Jesus.  Whether or not you believe Jesus was an apostate of no theological significance is irrelevant in terms of eternity.  The question is “do you believe that G-d raised Jesus from the dead?”  If you do, then J-sus is in your heart.  lf you disbelieve the resurrection of Jesus, then you do not know G-d!

Comingclouds, I get it, you are a Christian.  Gezunteheit.  I am an Orthodox Rabbi.  Therefore I am aware of the difference between Judaism and Christianity.  I am merely pointing out that there is, indeed, a difference.  You are responding by telling me that, yes, there is a difference, and that Judaism is wrong and I am going to Hell for disagreeing with you.  Your personal story of belief I find rather puzzling, and does not speak to me at all.  So, someone told you this is the truth, and that’s why you believe that this is the truth?  That’s really not very convincing at all!  As to your question, no, I (and all people who follow the Jewish religion) do NOT believe that G-d rose Jesus from the dead, or that he was G-d’s son (whatever that means).

Exhibit A of the kind of confusion Rav Steinsaltz advises us to avoid by not mixing the two.

Comingclouds, your exchange with Eitan Levy itself answers your question, demonstrating how, where 2 people (say, a mother and father) take their respective religions seriously, and are actively practicing them in all aspects of their daily lives, the inevitable clash in theologies, philosophies and practice would be “disastrous” and confusing for their children.

Dear Mr Levi. Thank you for your reply.  First, G-d wants to reach all gentiles; He did so thru J-sus.  Second, my 1st messg. was Christ’s followers use Christmas to reach unbelievers.  Satan’s task is to prevent this.  Judaism is not wrong as far as what it teaches, (now dont get mad).  It doesn’t teach the whole messg.  G-d meant Israel to be a LIGHT to reach the whole world and bring it into His Kingdom.  (Sorry if the message offends some).  The messg of Christmas is the messg of the Cross.  I came to believe this truth at an early age, yes.  Since that time I have built on this small bit of information.  I continue to believe becauses of what I see G-d do everyday, just about, in my life and in the world events around me.

Bless you, Rabbi

Dear Mr. Levy.  I apologize for any Christian who still believes that G-d would actually create a terrifying place called hell.  As a Christian I can say that there are many who call themselves Christian who do not really know G-d.  Yet there are many Christians who have a personal relationship with G-d and who do not believe that He would create such a place.  In my personal relationship with Him I have learned that Jesus was sent by G-d in order to reconcile us to Him and to remind us of His true character which is love.  Jesus brought us the gift of forgiveness which is our salvation and the salvation of the world.  It was G-d’s gift to the world because it showed us that He does not judge us but allows us free will because He trusts that we will learn that violence does beget violence, and love does beget love and it is love that we want and not violence.  If you want to bash Christians, as many on this blog have, please do bash Christians, but Christ Jesus is not a Christian.  He was born a Jew and the only crime He committed was to teach that G-d was love and that we were all a part of the family of G-d and so we are also love, born in the image and likeness of our G-d Father.  Jesus is not an enemy of Jews.  He taught us to love everyone because we are all part of G-d’s family.  You may not believe that Jesus was sent by G-d nor that He is The One who was to come and teach us everything about G-d but at least admit that He was a good man whose intention was to remind us that G-d is love and so are we.  Why do you want to bash someone who tells you this?  I really want to know.  Sincerely, Margaret

Bless you Margaret for what you have said.  and thank you for reminding me the important messg. that G-d is indeed love.  I have never, nor will I ever allow anyone to condemn the Jews to hell in my presence.  I love the Jewish people.  Jesus said to forgive them; I forgive them.  Jesus said to love them; I love them.  Jesus said to pray for them; I pray for them.  I love them with the love of Jesus.  My heart cries out because I cannot reach them with this love.  This is my last post

Sincerely, in love,
Pat

I have a problem with the discussions. All of you are bying into the trap of Satan. First of all you call the EVENTS of Channukkah a story. Second of all you negate to realize that X-mas the way most “learned-by-ear” X-ans is celebrate it. Jewish people stop saying the EVENTs of Channuchah are mistical stories. X-ans read the Holy Scriptures and read that the Birth of The Messiah – (Who Was, Who Is and Is To Come) did not even happen in the winter rather in the fall.
 
To Rabbi Levi, of Yahweh Tzeviot, shalom and with all respect as I am but a servant and a dog before the true chosen one of Yahweh. Yahshuah is the being of Yahweh who fought Israelin the flesh, The Promised one of Who is to Come to fulfill the prophacies of Michael and Nathan to King David.

Proverbs 30:4
Who hath ascended up 5927 into heaven 8064, or descended 3381? who hath gathered 622 the wind 7307 in his fists 2651? who hath bound 6887 the waters 4325 in a garment 8071? who hath established 6965 all the ends 657 of the earth 776? what [is] his name 8034, and what [is] his son’s 1121 name 8034, if thou canst tell 3045? 

I found some beautiful song lyrics the other day and though it had a good Chanukah message.

Remember what has been achieved
Keep trying it’s the hour of need

From a group called Yes.

Wow! So much for this being a Jewish Forum. Why if I am a decent Christian would I wish to silence my neighbour? At the Season when I am supposed to be asking God’s forgivenes for my sins of prejudice, intolerance, egotism, narrow mindedness, etc., etc.? It does not speak well of my fellow (supposedly) (good) Christian neighbour.
Thank you, Rabbi, you dispense good advise.

I understand this to be an out reach from the Jewish to engage in discussion.I appreciate  the forum.

Lord forgive me it’s the sabbath but I have to reply. If this seems an outreach possibly that’s my fault. I guess I started this football game.
Should I say that I am a Jew and you say that Jesus will judge you(yourself), I am okay with that. But if you say he will judge me, I am not okay with that.
You should give great thought to the words “holiness” and “chosen” before you come back to me.

Tabi, I would appreciate it if you considered going to the Rabbi’s site steinsalz.org and look through the Rabbi’s essays. I feel sure you will find a topic that interests you, and possibly rock your world! This may be the best outreach I can afford you, at this time. Sincerely, Patrick.

In the US you can’t even lead a horse to water much less make it drink, Lord I am done. Kill me as you wish.

May the Lord, the great Rabbi Steinsaltz, and the people of this site forgive me my despair found in my previous post, one which was taken down. There is good in the world otherwise it would not be, though sometimes I cannot see it.  Please forgive me. Patrick. 

I think the best way to talk about the two holidays, and thus explain why, we should not mix them is to tell children, and Christians, exactly what is different about Judaism and Christianity.

Judaism does not have a hell (#1) and Judaism does not have ‘original sin’ (#2) in the way Christians define it as permanent sin on every soul born that had to be cleansed by the human sacrifice of Jesus. Thus, Jesus means nothing to Judaism because we do not think there is a hell anyone needs to be saved from, nor is there original sin that babies souls must have washed off (baptism) so that their baby souls don’t go to hell if they die. This is the teaching of the Catholic church and continues into most Christian religions. Jews do not have a vengeful G*d. Christians re-wrote the 5 books of Moses, literally, and call it the old testament. In the Christian edited version they make G*D very vengeful, but they are misrepresenting G*d by doing this. Making G*d a vengeful sadist  is a convenient way to explain why G*d needed a human sacrifice. G*d does not ask for human sacrifices – ever. Abraham taught us that, it was lesson #1. Jesus was a nice man who wanted people to learn to be happy and not obsess about the rules and miss the bigger picture. The messiah has a specific list of things that he must accomplish, including world peace and the end of poverty. We can look around and see that the world is not perfect, so Jesus must not have been the messiah. Jesus was killed by the Romans. Shortly after (325 CE) the Romans became the Roman Catholics Church and controlled Europe for almost 2,000 years, so the Roman Catholic controllers of Europe (church)  liked to blame someone else for killing their #1 guy instead of themselves. Jews were the best choice and convenient because the basis of Christianity is not supported by Judaism, which makes their religion off-center in it’s historical context and confuses and upsets Christians. So, delegitimizing Jews would help them feel better about themselves all around, which is sad because Jesus would have made a great rabbi and could have helped a lot of people (Jews and non-Jews) learn about valuing the big picture and having healthy relationships.

The Christmas holiday is actually a pagan celebration that the Roman Catholic Church actively decided to adopt at the Council of Nicaea, in 325 CE. Everything traditional about Christmas is pagan. Santa is a commercialized exaggeration of a the pagan Greek gift giving figure Basil of Caesarea as well as continued agglomeration of the folk lore figures of other European groups that were under the control of the Roman Catholic Church.

The one thing that is similar about the two holidays is the imagery of light. Light is a symbolic tool used in all human cultures. In Judaism the eternal light of the temple, and synagogue, represents G*d. G*d is the light for human consciousness: intellectual light, spiritual light, emotional light. People all have this light inside them, everyone on earth. When we have healthy relationships we bring G*d into the world, and our lights join. When we have unhealthy relationships we push G*d out of the world, and our lights go out. When we die we all rejoin the light of G*d, because we all have this light inside us. At Channukah, we light candles as an expression of our desire and commitment to help everyone of earth have healthy relationships and bring G*d into the world. We hope to join our candles, one to the next, to pass on the light and help people be alive, aware, happy and connected. You do not have to be a Jew to have healthy relationships. You have the light of G*d no matter who you are, the same as everyone else.

The world does not have to be Jewish for the Messiah to come. When the Messiah does come, people will not think of themselves as being Jewish or not, they will retain their own cultures and celebrations and will adopt what they find is healthy and good. Maybe this will change them a little, but it is definitely not going to be a mass conversion the way Christians wish for themselves. It is going to be a curiosity search, with stark evaluation of what is Jewish religion and what is Jewish culture. People will discover that they already did a lot of things in the same spirit with Jewish teachings, but they didn’t know exactly why. They will realize why and they will embrace the good in their own ways. Jews will also be able to view themselves and see what is Jewish religion and what is Jewish culture. Jews will also be able to embrace what is good in their own ways. Light (as consciousness and the G*d spark within us) will fill the earth and all of our lights will finally connect.

In this way Channukah does think about the light of the world. The lights at Channukah are symbolic of this general desire for the light of consciousness and G*d. They are not in any way connected to the Christian religion. The story of the Messiah and hopes and prayers for the Messianic era pre-date Christianity. Many Christians get this confused and think anything to do with Messiah talk somehow includes Jesus. It does not. Channukah does have to do with fighting for Jewish light though. The Maccabees insisted on keeping the light from going out, literally and figuratively. If the maccabees had not done this there may have never been a Jesus.

I was raised Christian and I converted to Judaism. There is a whole lot of information the Christians don’t know about regarding how to have a happy life and emotionally healthy relationships. Anyone can have good relationships, but if the info is there why ignore it. I also know many, many people who converted to Judaism. I do not seek them out. There are just that many. I also know many wonderful, happy emotionally healthy Christians. We have holiday celebrations together. We do not pray together, but we do not need to to eat lots of food, decorate with lights, and be happy and talk about how to help bring the world to a happier place.

Hehe, minor correction: G*d taught us lesson #1 = no human sacrifices. Abraham learned the lesson and passed it on to us.

And yes, the term Chrismukkah came from a TV show called the O.C. I remember being in college when the episode aired and having Christian friends ask if I celebrated Chrismukkah and wanted to have a party with them for it. Certainly it happened already in blended religious families and a few number of Jews who wanted to feel like they were part of a cultural celebration.  No one ever talked about it or considered it as a phenomena previously.

I think the term is only a phenomena now because the work place will not take down the Christmas tree, but instead just puts up a small menorah and thinks that they have ceased offending people and have made everyone happy.

At the time of Jesus, Israel had been taken over by the Roman Empire and was controlled by the Romans. Jesus was killed because he was popular and had a following, a BIG following. Anyone with a big following was considered a threat by Romans because the person could persuade their followers to revolt against the Romans. The Romans killed Jesus because he was so very popular and they were a murderous, controlling Empire that didn’t want any possible challengers. Fame sucks.

If the parents are secure in their identity- the children will detect it.